In this article, we’re featuring an important conversation from ABC’s Life Matters, where our very own Temika Slee joins host Tegan Taylor and psychologist Carly Dober to talk about the growing trend of “grey divorce” in Australia – separations among couples over 50.
The episode explores why more older Australians are ending long-term marriages and the unique challenges that come with it. From rapidly shifting societal expectations in later life to the financial vulnerability of women who’ve spent decades as stay-at-home mums with little or no superannuation, this insightful discussion explores what’s really behind the boom in late-life breakups.
You can listen to the full episode here: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/lifematters/what-s-behind-the-boom-in-grey-divorce-/105378816
ABC Podcast Episode Transcript
Tegan: Well, while overall divorce rates are at a 50 year low, more couples are splitting later in life, especially after 20 or more years of marriage, nearly one in three divorces now involves someone aged 50 or over, and the trend is leaving many people suddenly single, facing housing stress and returning to work to stay afloat.
We’re about to get into the legal and psychological sides of why people are retiring their relationships around the same time we’d usually be retiring from work, but I’d love to hear from you, too, if you’ve ended a long term relationship later in life. What led to the split and how did you cope?
I’m joined by Temika Slee, a Brisbane based divorce lawyer, and Carly Dober, a psychologist and policy coordinator with the Australian Association of psychologists. Temika and Carly, thanks so much for joining me. No problem. Good morning. Temika Slee, I’ll start with you in your practice, are you seeing a boom among older clients?
Temika: We absolutely are seeing a boom. I’ve been admitted to practice for 13 years now, and I remember once upon a time, you wouldn’t really see anybody past kind of middle age. You know, it was middle age and younger people, not really many in the older age bracket, and now we’re seeing lots of them, not just in our private practice, but in our mediation space as well. We’re doing mediations for older couples. We’ve had lots of people in their 70s, 80s, 50s, 60s, of course, as well. But you know, right through to the 80s.
Tegan: 13 years is kind of a long time. It’s also not really a long time to see such a big swing in this direction.
Temika: No, it’s not. But I also think a lot has changed in 13 years in terms of societal norms around divorce. I think it’s much more accepted now. People are less likely to accept things that aren’t making them happy. I suppose people are more likely to say, look, this isn’t working for me at any age, and I need to do something about that.
Tegan: Carly, from your perspective, why are we seeing a rise in older people splitting up?
Carly: There’s a lot of reasons why divorce might be an option for people in their older years, there can be financial stresses or financial changes of circumstance where maybe one person has come into a lot of money or lost a lot of money, and they might separate just for the legal side of things. So neither of them are impacted in the same way they can be caring changes. So when the kids move out, they’ve noticed that maybe they haven’t actually nurtured their relationship and tender to one another, and they feel like strangers, and they are just thinking, what do I want the next 30 years of my life to be.
Tegan: I do want to talk more about the relational side of things, but I just wanted to unpack a little bit what you were saying about the money side of things. Are you saying that people are splitting up because they can’t see eye to eye on money, or that they’re splitting up for legal reasons to avoid getting the tax implications of their partner’s money shift?
Carly: Both are common, but what we are finding is that mainly women have been impacted, perhaps by being stay at home mothers for decades, and then they find they’ve got no super nothing to their name, and they aren’t necessarily supported by their partner ongoing, or don’t feel like they are supported. And again, they’re just thinking, Well, what do I want the next 30 years of my life to be? What do I do from here?
Tegan: So you mentioning one thing there? There’s, there’s a whole lot of different things that make divorce more complicated when you’re older.
Carly: Incredibly complicated, and we also know that older women in Australia are one of the fastest growing homelessness populations. So this is not a choice that comes by people easy. And we also know that rents across the country and housing insecurity are skyrocketing at the same time, so these two things in concert will make divorce a very, very tricky decision for a whole bunch of people.
Tegan: On the text line, I’d love to know if this is something that you’ve lived, if you’ve ended a long term relationship later in life, what led to that split. And I’d really love to know how you coped with it. One person says people grow apart, kids grow up. Some men Chase younger pastures, and ladies battle menopause. Very sad for all, especially women. Luckily, it hasn’t happened to me. John says people are becoming more narcissistic. Carly, what do you say to that?
Carly: I think this is a term that’s thrown around very willy nilly. And I think you know, everyone, every person has is sits on the narcissism spectrum, because it’s a trait that we all have. But to be a clinically diagnosed narcissist means that it is impacting your quality of life in a significant way. And I think maybe there’s more of a social license for people to do what truly makes them happy compared to 30 years ago. We know what their parents or grandparents would have wanted, or what their culture or religion might have wanted, and so that freedom might come across as selfish to others.
Tegan: Yeah, that freedom, Temika, that’s something you sort of mentioned just now, as well as that’s what you’re seeing in the clients that you’re seeing, once people have decided that this is what they want, they’ve then got to deal with the legal fallout of that. A lot of women like you say, take time off to work, to raise children. They might not have as much super as their partners. How are the people you’re seeing navigating those imbalances in a relationship?
Temika: So in terms of the imbalance in superannuation that’s in the asset pool for division, so it’s all factored in, one of the things that I think is really valuable is for people to get legal advice really early on in this decision making process. Because knowledge is power, and it can also offer people some comfort, in a way, because they do find out, Oh, hang on, the super is in there, you know, he doesn’t get to keep all of that that’s all factored in. And also it can help in terms of getting to a resolution amicably. Because you’ve had some legal advice, your expectations have been managed in terms of what it might look like for you. And then you can work towards a mediation process, for example, rather than a prolonged litigation.
Tegan: You’re listening to life matters here on Radio National I’m Tegan Taylor, and we’re talking about so called gray divorces, this trend towards people later in life, after many decades of marriage, deciding to call it quits. I’d love to know if this has been your experience. Tig, you recently split at 55
Tig: I did, that’s right. Tegan, yeah.
Tegan: How did that come about?
Tig: Well, it took a it probably took a period of time to get to that point, but I guess it wasn’t necessarily a mutual decision. You know, one of us decided that they were looking for something different.
Tegan: You know, I’m hearing that wasn’t you.
Tig: That wasn’t me, no.
Tegan: What kind of, how did that conversation go?
Tig: It was over a period of time, you know, we’d been living overseas. We came back. We sort of came back separately. And I think, you know, probably I don’t know, like a lot of people at my age, I suppose people start to rethink what it is that they’re sort of looking for in life. I don’t think that’s uncommon. But, you know, I guess in this particular situation, what we were looking for in life sort of became markedly different.
Tegan: Tig, do you mind me asking? It sounds like it’s pretty fresh for you, maybe you haven’t been able to work through this the whole way yet. But how have you processed this? How are you coping with it?
Tig: Look it’s a mess. It’s a massive readjustment, you know, for everyone involved, you know, you think about what it looks like financially in the future. And you know, make up the family. There are children involved. You know, I think I certainly have been working with a councilor, and that’s been terrific. You know, that’s a really important part of working my way through this. And I think there’s, you know, there’s a number, a growing number of people in this situation. So actually, talking to people who, there’s nothing like talking to someone who’s kind of had a similar experience, and, you know, and you know lots of people, you know, people are very caring and listen, but there’s nothing like talking to someone who has walked a mile in the same shoes, and so that, you know, I think, has been and remains a really important part of the sort of the process, I guess, which, which it very much, is a process of rethinking what life looks like. You know, at this, at this stage of life.
Tegan: Thank you so much for for the call. I really appreciate you sharing your story. It sounds like it’s pretty fresh for you. Carly, just listening to that, what I’m hearing is, on their wedding day, no one’s thinking about splitting up. You’re really looking to the future with a lot of optimism. And when couples split, you have to sort of reassess the vision of the future that you had for yourself?
Carly: Yeah, and that can be really difficult on so many levels, even when the divorce was wanted, right? Because it’s a lot of logistical planning, it’s a lot of emotional recalibration, and it can shift and shake the foundations of your family, friendships and community. And I really, I really agree with the sentiment that it is so helpful to talk to people who’ve walked through it, but for many people, it can be quite catastrophic, especially if they’ve never seen it coming, because we know that one of the key psychological protective factors for all of us are our close social relationships. And when we are in our you know, older ages that one of these people tend to be our romantic partners or our life partners, so when we split with them, or we get divorced. Who do we have left?
And if you haven’t cultivated friendships and maintained friendships, people can find themselves quite isolated and alone while adjusting to this massive loss, right? So you’re not just losing a romantic partner, you’re not just looking at the assets, but you’re also losing part of your social connections there.
Tegan: That’s so interesting. You are listening to life matters here on Radio National I’m Tegan Taylor talking about the increase in number of couples in their 50s and beyond who are splitting up on the text line. Jim says, I think it’s happening because people have been unhappy for a long time and could not see it getting any better. Not all men or women end up worse off. Well, Temika, let’s talk about what it looks like when people have to do this, the legal side of it, splitting up those assets. Are people surprised about how little they end up walking away with?
Temika: Yes, people are often surprised. But I think that comes from not ever having looked at your asset pool and thinking, what does this look like if it’s divided? For example, you know, people are looking at their finances all of the time, but it’s always a household kind of income, what they own as a pair. And it’s not until you start sitting down and working through the asset pool, working through the figures, that the reality of what dividing it actually looks like hits.
What can people do again? No one wants to have to think about this. This is not a situation that you’re dreaming about for your future, but what kind of steps should people be thinking about and at what time to protect themselves against getting blindsided by this later on?
So one of the big things that we’re also seeing a real increase in is financial agreements, I think, more colloquially known as prenups. Lots of people making inquiries about those at the moment. They can help in terms of setting out at the very beginning what it will look like if and when you separate. That said, they don’t always avoid conflict at the end, but they do really help set those expectations, and it can offer a level of protection for the spouse who has come in with less, for example, that’s one of the options.
Another thing is to keep your eye across the finances as best you can. Have a good idea of what’s going on in terms of bank accounts, investments, the home loan, your super really keeping a top of those things. Because another thing that we often see is one person has predominantly managed the finances, and another person that’s not really been their space, and they come in and they have no idea what their finances look like, and then that means the reality of how little they might walk away with, or how much comes as an even bigger surprise.
Tegan: You’re listening to life matters here on Radio National I’m Tegan Taylor talking about statistics showing us that more people are getting divorced in their 50s and beyond than before. Mark, you broke up after 30 years, and it’s been a massive change for you.
Mark: Yeah, it has, and it was a very complicated change, and in terms of we just kind of like, respectfully, just ran out of steam, we’d moved on from each other. We’d done a lot of fantastic things together, and then, unfortunately, not on my part, but there was some family violence on the other party’s part, and that was very, very confronting. And there was the family court, and which I’ve got to say, was fair, and I think the family court does a great job in trying to get people together to solve these issues so but you take a massive financial hit. But the important thing is, and I’d say this to everyone, remember that my children are of almost of adult age. You’ve got one in the Navy, etc, etc. They will always look back with adult eyes, and that’s what we tried to keep in focus, that our children would look back with adult eyes as the way we behave towards each other. So we do communicate regularly, and I think you need to have that. But, you know, I’ve got friends going through it, and it’s such a difficult path, I’ll have to work longer now, there’s no way I can retire when I wanted to, and that’s just a reality. I’m lucky I’m not in a job that’s not physical, so I can work longer. I’ve moved out of the family home, which is really hard, but it was either that or sell the family home. And I just went, no, I want my I want my kids to have a place to always go to, you know, because in your 20s, things can go wrong and you might need to come home. So that was financially difficult, scary. I’d never been in that position before. I was lucky enough as one of the sandwich generation to be able to afford to buy a home. Now I’m renting for the first time. I haven’t rented since I was a student.
Tegan: Mark it sounds like it sounds like it’s been a huge upheaval in your life. Thank you so much for the call, and I really love that wisdom of that your kids will look back with adult eyes and and to be to keep things respectful and fair. There so Temika, I suppose what is your parting advice to people? Who are you just want to insure yourself against anything that could happen in the future?
Temika: I suppose my parting advice would be, as soon as a separation is on the horizon, get some legal advice. I really do believe that knowledge is power. It can it doesn’t have to be at the point of separation. You can get some advice before you’ve separated, and as part of that process, you can talk about things that you can be doing before you make the final call to kind of get your ducks in a row, I suppose, to protect yourself, to make sure that you’re going into the process with the knowledge that you need making the most of a period where you might still be able to talk to each other. So I think that’s really the best advice I can give. Get some legal advice, and then try and work it out amicably. Work towards a mediation rather than litigation, because once you’ve made this call, you don’t want to spend the next few years in a messy separation process. If you can work it out amicably, that’s always going to be great.
Tegan: Tameka and Carly, thank you both so much for joining me today. Temika Slee is a Brisbane based divorce lawyer, and Carly Dober is a psychologist and the policy coordinator with the Australian Association of psychologists. And thank you for your texts on this. They really illustrate the breadth of all different reasons why people are finding themselves in this position.
One person says, My parents divorced in their late 60s, and I was surprised as an adult child of divorce just how much it affected me and my siblings and the overall family dynamic. It’s so sad now there’s grandchildren and my parents can’t be in the same room.
Trevor says my parents split so that they could get two single pensions, as it’s more than the married pension, the holiday house became dad’s principal resident to beat the assets test, they still live together. Hope. No one from the ATO is listening right now, and another person says many working women outgrow their husbands and having greater financial security are able to consider separation once their children have reached their adulthood.
If you’re facing the prospect of divorce or separation later in life and unsure where to start, we’re here to help. Feel free to get in touch and book a time to come in for a chat with our family law team. We’ll help understand your options and support you every step of the way.
